Comments on: The Vendor Client relationship – in real world situations http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html swissmiss is a design blog and studio run by Tina Roth Eisenberg, a 'swiss designer gone NYC'. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 23:29:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: David Murphy http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-405791 David Murphy Fri, 09 Dec 2011 07:24:28 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-405791 Listening to the comments it is clearly the customer's fault in your minds. The thing all you people need to understand is that your job is not design, it is customer management. You have to understand your customers. YOu have to see things from their perspective. YOu need to understand the customer pays money for their needs not yours. I also wonder how often you do the same things when you are a customer as the customer's you despise? When you have carried out an assignment do you have a lessons learned review? Preferably with the customer? Do you learn from it? Do you apply your leaning to subsequent assignments. Over time you should be able to prevent many of these issues by understanding their worries and addressing them early and if necessary often. If great restaurant staff (paid a pittance compared to you) can understand this then so can you. Or maybe you should be employees not freelancers? Most problems (not all) are caused by suppliers not understanding and adapting to their customer's needs. To many designers behave like temperamental artists instead of professional business people. As a freelancer you are a business person first and designer second. if you cannot handle that you need to join a larger setup and work for a good project manager. Most of the comments I have seen here are arrogant and foolish and most of you need to grow up. Listening to the comments it is clearly the customer’s fault in your minds. The thing all you people need to understand is that your job is not design, it is customer management. You have to understand your customers. YOu have to see things from their perspective. YOu need to understand the customer pays money for their needs not yours. I also wonder how often you do the same things when you are a customer as the customer’s you despise?

When you have carried out an assignment do you have a lessons learned review? Preferably with the customer? Do you learn from it? Do you apply your leaning to subsequent assignments. Over time you should be able to prevent many of these issues by understanding their worries and addressing them early and if necessary often.

If great restaurant staff (paid a pittance compared to you) can understand this then so can you. Or maybe you should be employees not freelancers?

Most problems (not all) are caused by suppliers not understanding and adapting to their customer’s needs. To many designers behave like temperamental artists instead of professional business people. As a freelancer you are a business person first and designer second. if you cannot handle that you need to join a larger setup and work for a good project manager.

Most of the comments I have seen here are arrogant and foolish and most of you need to grow up.

]]> By: Sand http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21892 Sand Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:14:39 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21892 @thegraphicdesigner - when I can identify a client that wants a design just to "get them by." I quickly refer them to stock design/template sites. I've refused more client work than accepted. It keeps me sane, but forces me to supplement my income through part-time retail work :( More professionals need to refuse work from bad clients in order to save this industry - there was an ad on CL for a design contract at 8$/hr :| @thegraphicdesigner – when I can identify a client that wants a design just to “get them by.” I quickly refer them to stock design/template sites.

I’ve refused more client work than accepted. It keeps me sane, but forces me to supplement my income through part-time retail work :(

More professionals need to refuse work from bad clients in order to save this industry – there was an ad on CL for a design contract at 8$/hr :|

]]> By: PM2PM http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21890 PM2PM Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:00:05 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21890 Steve - re: photos. check out the COST section in the below post for a POV on the cost of "free" photos: http://pm2pm.blogspot.com/2009/03/penny-wise-pound-foolish-assetart.html Steve –

re: photos. check out the COST section in the below post for a POV on the cost of “free” photos:

http://pm2pm.blogspot.com/2009/03/penny-wise-pound-foolish-assetart.html

]]> By: steve http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21862 steve Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:48:01 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21862 on a different note... The real problem in my opinion are the big agencies that act as intermediates. The generally rip off their clients (big corroborates) and then price gouge with the little studios and freelancers that actually build the stuff. When a small studio then actually gets a job with a large corporate they scrutinize every line item because they thing they are being ripped off because the price is so different to that of the big agency there must be something wrong (even if the price is actually cheaper). This happens both to myself and other studios in my field almost on a weekly basis. on a different note…

The real problem in my opinion are the big agencies that act as intermediates. The generally rip off their clients (big corroborates) and then price gouge with the little studios and freelancers that actually build the stuff.

When a small studio then actually gets a job with a large corporate they scrutinize every line item because they thing they are being ripped off because the price is so different to that of the big agency there must be something wrong (even if the price is actually cheaper).

This happens both to myself and other studios in my field almost on a weekly basis.

]]> By: steve http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21861 steve Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:41:09 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21861 just got of the phone talking to a client: "we need some photography done for a high end brand. our managers son is a keen photographer and he gave it shot but his photos looked too cheap. we know you deliver professional results so we through we might be able to get the shot for about half of what we would pay for if we would buy it from a stock agency. We already looked there but they don't really have anything we like." just got of the phone talking to a client:

“we need some photography done for a high end brand. our managers son is a keen photographer and he gave it shot but his photos looked too cheap.

we know you deliver professional results so we through we might be able to get the shot for about half of what we would pay for if we would buy it from a stock agency. We already looked there but they don’t really have anything we like.”

]]> By: thegraphicdesigner http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21851 thegraphicdesigner Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:02:19 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21851 Funny... but it hurts because its so true! - Kevin W: I get that ALL the time. "I know so and so and have connections to this and that." - Sand: Great point. The truth is most clients aren't looking for great design, they just want something that can get them by. Funny… but it hurts because its so true!

- Kevin W: I get that ALL the time. “I know so and so and have connections to this and that.”

- Sand: Great point. The truth is most clients aren’t looking for great design, they just want something that can get them by.

]]> By: PM2PM http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21846 PM2PM Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:20:13 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21846 Painful. See my take on this: http://pm2pm.blogspot.com/2009/05/pricing-wars-agencyclient-dialog.html Painful. See my take on this:

http://pm2pm.blogspot.com/2009/05/pricing-wars-agencyclient-dialog.html

]]> By: tsuyoikuma http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21324 tsuyoikuma Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:51:24 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21324 Bargaining before hand is perfectly okay. That's what contracts are for. After the product is delivered - eh, not so much. Bargaining before hand is perfectly okay. That’s what contracts are for. After the product is delivered – eh, not so much.

]]> By: Jim Merk http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21289 Jim Merk Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:18:01 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21289 Hilarious! Most of those designers who are whining about either the lack of value in design or having negotiators as clients should consider selling tacos anyway. Hilarious!

Most of those designers who are whining about either the lack of value in design or having negotiators as clients should consider selling tacos anyway.

]]> By: Sand http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21171 Sand Sun, 31 May 2009 04:14:36 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21171 I think if clients knew what separated cheap design from expensive design, would be more willing to pay for better design. It's easy to determine what separates the Taco Stand from the Steakhouse, but what about good design from bad design? Does the average client even know what "Good Design" is? I think if clients knew what separated cheap design from expensive design, would be more willing to pay for better design. It’s easy to determine what separates the Taco Stand from the Steakhouse, but what about good design from bad design? Does the average client even know what “Good Design” is?

]]> By: joe http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21082 joe Fri, 29 May 2009 21:01:02 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21082 This isn't just design. This is anything. Software, law, you name it. Anything where one person designs/creates/consults for another and gets stiffed on the back end. This isn’t just design. This is anything. Software, law, you name it. Anything where one person designs/creates/consults for another and gets stiffed on the back end.

]]> By: Legare http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21079 Legare Fri, 29 May 2009 20:49:59 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21079 Same thing in kitchens. After the proposal, I get "well then, how much is it per linear foot?" I'm thinking: take my price, and a tape measure and figure it out! Same thing in kitchens. After the proposal, I get “well then, how much is it per linear foot?” I’m thinking: take my price, and a tape measure and figure it out!

]]> By: Leif Miltenberger http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21073 Leif Miltenberger Fri, 29 May 2009 19:37:31 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21073 I love the bit about "line-items" and the in-house part at the end. I love the bit about “line-items” and the in-house part at the end.

]]> By: Stephanie http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21056 Stephanie Fri, 29 May 2009 14:28:55 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21056 Yes, when people try to "negotiate" that's exactly what it sounds like. Yes, when people try to “negotiate” that’s exactly what it sounds like.

]]> By: Aleksandar http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21024 Aleksandar Fri, 29 May 2009 06:38:38 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21024 Wow, this is amazing. Who did this wonderful thing? Wow, this is amazing. Who did this wonderful thing?

]]> By: Steph http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-21003 Steph Fri, 29 May 2009 01:43:26 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-21003 It's like looking in a mirror, a really huge mirror that I got for the price of a compact. It’s like looking in a mirror, a really huge mirror that I got for the price of a compact.

]]> By: Lisa http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20999 Lisa Fri, 29 May 2009 00:35:47 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20999 who made this? i feel like crying. who made this? i feel like crying.

]]> By: David Reid http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20981 David Reid Thu, 28 May 2009 20:39:45 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20981 this is so painfully accurate and honest it's hard to watch. thx for sharing. this is so painfully accurate and honest it’s hard to watch. thx for sharing.

]]> By: Moemo http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20976 Moemo Thu, 28 May 2009 19:46:35 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20976 It's so funny, so true -- it hurts. It’s so funny, so true — it hurts.

]]> By: Hans http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20968 Hans Thu, 28 May 2009 18:18:18 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20968 this reminds me of all the times i've worked for friends and family for free, and then they keep coming back for more. this reminds me of all the times i’ve worked for friends and family for free, and then they keep coming back for more.

]]> By: joanna goddard http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20962 joanna goddard Thu, 28 May 2009 17:24:10 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20962 loved this. this happens in magazines too when they assign you a long story, then cut it way down because their pages got cut, and then pay you by the printed word! loved this. this happens in magazines too when they assign you a long story, then cut it way down because their pages got cut, and then pay you by the printed word!

]]> By: Ben Beltran http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20961 Ben Beltran Thu, 28 May 2009 17:19:38 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20961 Wow. This is incredibly spot-on. Next time a client is acting like that, I'll make sure to show him/her the video. I wonder if they'll get offended, realize how silly they're acting or just ignore it. This also happens a lot in programming. I wonder why people just aren't formal with design/programming business. Wow. This is incredibly spot-on. Next time a client is acting like that, I’ll make sure to show him/her the video. I wonder if they’ll get offended, realize how silly they’re acting or just ignore it.

This also happens a lot in programming. I wonder why people just aren’t formal with design/programming business.

]]> By: AppleZilla http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20956 AppleZilla Thu, 28 May 2009 16:36:33 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20956 Ugh. That made me very uncomfortable. Been there and how. Ugh. That made me very uncomfortable. Been there and how.

]]> By: Kevin W http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20954 Kevin W Thu, 28 May 2009 16:28:31 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20954 Pretty sad, but not far from the truth. She should have told the hairdresser she would give him lots of free publicity so it would more than make up for him losing money and working for free. Pretty sad, but not far from the truth. She should have told the hairdresser she would give him lots of free publicity so it would more than make up for him losing money and working for free.

]]> By: swissmiss http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20952 swissmiss Thu, 28 May 2009 16:09:17 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20952 Grant, seriously? This is happening in Medicine as well? How? Grant, seriously? This is happening in Medicine as well? How?

]]> By: Grant Hamilton http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20949 Grant Hamilton Thu, 28 May 2009 15:44:58 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20949 this is why I quit design. I must be dumb because the same thing happens in medicine. this is why I quit design. I must be dumb because the same thing happens in medicine.

]]> By: CriticalMass http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20947 CriticalMass Thu, 28 May 2009 15:43:06 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20947 At the very end when the client asks the chef to show him how he made it so they could do it in-house next time, I almost lost it. That seems to be the story of life as an independent graphic designer these days. Can I have that template? Oh and the fonts? Thanks. At the very end when the client asks the chef to show him how he made it so they could do it in-house next time, I almost lost it. That seems to be the story of life as an independent graphic designer these days. Can I have that template? Oh and the fonts? Thanks.

]]> By: swissmiss http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20944 swissmiss Thu, 28 May 2009 15:38:30 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20944 I agree, it made me smile but also sad. It is litterally what I am dealing with on a daily basis at this point and I am starting to run out of diplomatic answers to some of these absurd requests. I agree, it made me smile but also sad. It is litterally what I am dealing with on a daily basis at this point and I am starting to run out of diplomatic answers to some of these absurd requests.

]]> By: Marc http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20943 Marc Thu, 28 May 2009 15:36:30 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20943 this is tagged "made me smile" but I almost cried. great find though :) this is tagged “made me smile” but I almost cried.

great find though :)

]]> By: cIu http://www.swiss-miss.com/2009/05/the-vendor-client-relationship-in-real-world-situations.html#comment-20937 cIu Thu, 28 May 2009 14:36:54 +0000 http://www.swiss-miss.com/?p=14926#comment-20937 damn, this is the naked truth. One should show this clip to all potential customers... damn, this is the naked truth. One should show this clip to all potential customers…

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